Paranormal State

Just because I know this is going to be an issue as it always turns into, Christian apologists like yourself need to confront the fact that you are arguing for the existence of one whose existence breaks the laws of physics in every possible sense and whose works only carry veracity with them in the case he existed. Case in point? If Socrates was just a mouthpiece for Plato this doesn't make the foundations of logical reasoning any less true. If Alexander the Great didn't actually exist that doesn't discount macedonian conquest. If Jesus didn't exist then all the crap about kingdoms and eternal life IS untrue because the person writing this stuff is NOT qualified to speak on the subject material. If you're going to make WILD claims like Jesus is a verified fact at least provide evidence that's completely bulletproof. But between KNOWN forgeries and interpolations, non-contemporaries, non-academic sources claimed as academic like personal letters, there is no case to be made here. You have to take it on faith, and I like to look both ways before I cross the street not assume there are no cars because I BELIEVE there are no cars.   See 37 other replies

Ah, Tacitus. I knew he would come up. The Tacitus that wrote about Jesus several decades after Jesus death, whom died before Tacitus was even born. The same Tacitus whose works are under literary scrutiny because as a political historian he misused terms of Roman hierarchy in the works referencing Christ hinting at Christian interpolation rather than his own works. The same Tacitus who did not have access to Christian Judeo genealogy records because they were lost in several fires. There is not overwhelming evidence for Christ at all. I don't need to watch another movie about the long drawn out and cross-contradictory "proofs" from non-contemporaries. And the bible isn't evidence for itself, I'm sorry it doesn't work that way. There is very little evidence for Christ. Pliny the Younger, born almost 30 years after the crucifixion who only wrote about Christ in private letters concerning the treatment of Christians 5 DECADES after the proposed crucifixion of Christ. Concern over the beliefs of early Christian cults is hardly evidence.Josephus who was a lifelong orthodox Jew writing in his Testimonium using messianic terminology to describe Christ who was NOT the recognized messiah in a paper for Roman citizenry who had no knowledge of Jewish Messianic hierarchy. This isn't even counting the HUGE suspicion of the latter part of this passage being an interpolation by Eusebius in the 4th century. Look I've been in this discussion 5000 times, the evidence is weak and unconvincing. You aren't arguing for the existence of the literal son of God, not some poor carpenter or some intentionally general "worker of wonderous things", or some high priest who was never crucified. These works "verifying" the existence are quote mines that ignore the context behind these works and ignore the contradictions to biblical accuracy.   See 37 other replies

... continued...Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.   See 37 other replies

...continued...Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.To be continued...   See 37 other replies

Some of the more important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads, “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”To be continued...   See 37 other replies

Grrr... one sentence I typed didn't make sense. I meant to say that hardly actually disputes the fact (yes, fact) that Jesus actually existed. Those who do are in a minute minority. The only reason anyone has to disbelieve that Jesus existed is purely because of their hatred of Him.   See 37 other replies

There is more documented evidence of the existence of Jesus than there is for any one of us today. Hardly anyone, even unbelievers, don't argue that Jesus existed, so you're in a massive minority on that one. Here's as much proof as you could ask for, Dan. It would take you at least a year to check it all out. Go to YouTube and type in this phrase: ""The Bible is God's Word?! Prove it!" (Mark Kielar)" Watch the video. It's one hour, 19 minutes and 28 seconds. It mentions all the documentation and historical records you could ask to have. Try debunking those.   See 37 other replies