That is called an appeal to authority Motulist giving his credentials alone isn't an argument at all. Although i think the original poster has made a mistake i dont think Ray meant to say artificial selection didn't occur after the dog was domesticated. I believe when Ray was discussing the Lurcher (if thats how you spell it) you can see he talks about artificial selection.I think it is rather silly to worry about if dogs adapted to us on a massive scale or we trained them on a minute scale. People all over the world are quiet fond of taking pets, maybe some people took a few dogs and kept them and then added more genetic diversity by collecting more once they saw what the wolf could do as a pet after a couple hundred years = dog. Maybe a whole population of wolf/whatever adapted to people and we started to take them in = dog. Maybe it was a mix maybe a pack or two took up shop next to a tribe and the tribe noticed they kept away other more aggressive packs so they fed them and then started to keep them and boom. Who really cares it could happen a million ways even different ways in different areas. I think that discussing how the first dogs were domesticated is a

Quote: "the old guy... is patronizing everyone he talks to and doesn't know anything about dogs."Wow, you couldn't be more wrong. Firstly, his interview method is socratic, meaning he asks questions (which he already knows the answer to) in order to elicit answers which teach people much more than if he were simply lecturing at them. Regarding your second statement, this guy knows a *LOT* about dogs.http://www.google.com/search?q=ray+coppinger

Quote: "the old moron" "the old guy ... fails so miserably"Dude, you're the one who's looking like an idiot here.http://www.google.com/search?q=ray+coppinger